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From: not-2-disclose@the.net
Subject: MS-DOS Kermit, more incapabalities
Message-ID: <020500194616not-2-disclose@the.net>
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 00:59:31 GMT
Organization: Sympatico
To: kermit.misc@columbia.edu
Hi Frank, Francis and all the captains Kermit around,
About "MS-DOS Kermit, more capabalities" of February:
FDC> Even for someone earning the minimum wage, the $30 would quickly
FDC> repay itself in reduced boot time and sanity over a 8088.
CA> You completely ignored that it was not an option. This is probably
CA> the third or fourth time it has been ignored. ...you're assuming
CA> that the money is the problem and choice has no value.
Charles is right: i never wanted to discuss money problems! Instead of
that, MY CHOICES WERE STATED CLEARLY - FROM THE BEGINING... We are very
well aware of what `MS-Kermit' DOES on a "legacy" machine because WE ARE
USERS and we both made numerous testings. I PRE-ESTABLISHED THE GROUNDS
FOR THE DISCUSSION I WAS SEEKING FOR and it has been DISREGARDED in such
a way that left no room for erroneous perceptions: a person who doesn't
understand an other's person topic would simply ask questions but that's
not what i seen. What i observed was supposedly "busy" people who acted
as if i hadn't pointed them out at the topic i wished to focus on. "The
Team" members are INCAPABLE OF RECOGNIZING THAT THEY FAILED OUTRAGEOUSLY
in DISRESPECTING a most BASIC & REPEATED request: that to upgrade ISN'T
considered AN OPTION... Trully, that's the very point where the fallacy
begins. The sole interrest centered on turning my topics into something
else, which is quite despicable when you know that i'm a user who simply
tried to share with others. Even more despicable is the quick judgment
in vertue of which i was designated as being a confused "genius", in one
of those contexts where it's crystal clear that this is no compliment...
Think of it: if i am to consider any hardware upgrade it's quite simple
to pick up a `Win' box and load `ZMoDem' capable ~TelNet~ applications,
to my hearts content, and with very little imagination being required!!!
Imagination, it's all that is necessary to realize that a 8088/8086 can
be a severe "test bench" for revealing the programs which have been best
put together... Maybe, it might also bring into view an original way to
go back in time and see the real extent of what MIGHT have been done on
a modest `PC-XT' - more than a decade ago - should the programing effort
have been agreed upon in time to match the hardware at hand... Maybe, i
am just trying to locate the perfect application for a friend who's tiny
~PalTop~ will connect happily to a pocket MoDem... Why is my motivation
supposed to be important to people who can't care less about the rest?!?
That's IRRELEVANT here since i've set the parameters, *REPEATEDLY*! :-7
[...]
Instead of a short & clear answer which would have allowed me to quickly
move out, in search for another ~NG~, i landed in a place where the guys
find satisfaction into an unprovoked, mocking, twisted mind game against
some legacy USERS! Amazing how the hole team - or team of holes, euh...
Well, the team clearly won't see a need for introspection, put aside the
professor who briefly expressed some regret for having to say "No"... I
am confident that some readers weren't rendered "confused" by the recent
effort of diversion: in a way, a couple harsh words like "ass-holes" or
"shit-heads" can't be any worst than a selection of "little strategies".
It is easy to allege that a user is making fallacies, Frank, but it will
not erase your own faults... Charles has proven to be CURIOUS and tried
to HELP me - YOU HAVEN'T, especially you, Frank. You took great care in
order not to ever pay attention to my basic intention but everything you
want the audience to believe about Charles i saw it coming from the team
while the uncalled hostility rapidly took form, in between the lines, in
a much clearer fashion, at occasions... You people just seem to love it
when things start to heat up and you enjoy pushing it toward the edge.
Can't you just write a 2 sentences reply like the following (how come?):
******************************************[ Hypothetical mode enabled ]*
No, the `MS-Kermit' team isn't and -=* WON'T *=- make any plans for the
addition of other file transfer protocols like `ZMoDem' to its terminal
emulator. Also, the source-code currently available is for v3.15 ONLY.
*****************************************[ Hypothetical mode disabled ]*
Three lines, Frank. That's all i'd require as an answer. No frill$!...
Also, the same is valid for professor Doupnik and his followers!... %-7
FDC> As you might know, the Kermit Project has always made a point of
FDC> producing accessible software compatible with low-end equipment...
FDC> We serve, and have always served... Your quarrel is not with us,
FDC> it's with the BBSs that don't install a decent Kermit... It's not
FDC> our job to make Zmodem work better.
You'd deny that the BBS world won't just thrive on the `Kermit' protocol
alone, even if you were the only users on earth! By the time you people
are trying to justify your kind of "magical thought" concept, nothing is
actually done to resolve the issue. In the meantime, you will disregard
any real-life information a BBSer can bring to your attention and still
expect SysOps to readily invest a great deal of time to install `Kermit'
(even if they already juged that `ZMoDem' does fine!). That's a foolish
idea when USERS who are caught in the middle ARE ASKED TO ADAPT - IN THE
VERY SAME WAY THAT YOU'VE BEEN INSISTING THAT THEY DO, YOURSELF... Your
quarrel is not with us, it is with the author of `ZMoDem' or whatever it
is (i don't care)! Oh, and those disabled people, about who you pretend
to show concern, they probably happen to be amongst those for who BBSing
makes the most sense since it is text-mode based, in essence. Keep your
display of a caring attitude for somebody else, Frank! I don't buy it:
the `MS-Kermit' users are cut out from a great deal of the BBS world but
you don't look like you're aware of it; i bet you don't lurk around...
At the very least, have the decency to leave the disabled out of this!!!
>:-7
Why the fuss? 'cause "legacy" and/or "ZMoDem" taboo words were written?
That's bizarre! Almost as bizarre as the fact that `MS-Kermit' DID rely
on `TCPPort', from the `WatTCP' -=BLOB=- something ~TCP~/~IP~ stack, but
you didn't seem to remember depending on it for `Kermit's ~TelNet~ port!
Hey? 8-o Talk about denying others access to the #25 ~IP~ port... %-7
The poor sod's "BLOB" line of topic sounds funny, seen under that light!
FRB> Are you saying that an XT is not obsolete? I... ...gave you an
FRB> avenue to pursue cheap or *FREE* material that is more recent...
CA> Can you not read and interpret English? "IT IS NOT AN OPTION"
FDC> If it is "not an option" for you FINE. But it very well may be for
FDC> others and makes your statement about needing to work in the
FDC> government or academia no less a fallacy.
There is a saying that nobody is more blind than he who doesn't want to
see. My very post of January 1 wasn't written in behalf of "others"!...
I thought it was clearly put: upgrading I S N O O P T I O N !!!
This NewsGroup is the most pathetic thing i've seen for months. I start
with introducing myself and playing all cards at once, believing that it
would help eventual correspondants to TUNE IN or FILTER OUT my posts, if
wanted; instead of to-the-point replies, all i appear to get is a bunch
of ill-focussed, mis-interpreted and fallacious expressions with a great
deal of attitude and i'm supposed to agree with that... Well, arrogance
has a name (many names i'd say)! It should suffice to review the ~NG~'s
archive in a chronological order to see how a simple and innocent post i
made became twisted to no end by "the team". *THAT* amazes me!... %-o
Of course, "the team" may have forgot the basics: such as the "Editor's
Notes" by Christine M. Gianone who wrote in `Kermit's News #4 of June
1990, in her quality of manager for development and distribution... :^o
I was pointed to this very interresting reading, lately... I found it
quite refreshing:
************************************************************************
CMG> What Are You Doing? If you have an interesting Kermit story to
CMG> tell, please send it in. Even if you don't think it's interesting,
CMG> we'd still like to know how you are using Kermit. Is it saving you
CMG> money, time, aggravation? Is it making your life better in some
CMG> small way? Let us know! There are three widespread misconceptions
CMG> about Kermit. The first is that it is "just" a file transfer
CMG> protocol that one finds implemented in commercial software packages
CMG> like Crosstalk, Smartcom, etc, but it is not a software package
CMG> itself. The second misconception is that Kermit software is
CMG> academic, used only in universities. [...]
************************************************************************
Well, i'm using `MS-Kermit v3.16 Beta' as a ~TelNet~ terminal emulator.
I visit some of the rare remote sites to support the same-name protocol
thru it, including BSSes. I read/post into NewsGroups (this message is
a real-life proof that i do!), and i would do the same with my ~E-Mail~
as well, were it not for an obtuse, single-minded set of idealists...
:-7
I came to this NewsGroup in hope of finding other people like me. Only,
the spirit isn't there anymore - it shows! Haven't i POLITELY submitted
to this ~NG~ what i was doing, just like you frequently insisted that we
do, Frank - as if we were the only ones who need to watch our ATTITUDE?!
I didn't see any "Glad you let us know" kind of reply. Instead, it felt
as if we were told: "Hey, don't bother... It's our way or nothing!"...
Please, take note that i can't care less about the team. Let people do
*their* things and keep yours for those who seem to appreciate, you will
be rendering everybody an immense service by dispensing people of all
the self-justifications, bold titles quoting & intimidation... twisted
mind games, etc., etc., etc... %-o Oh, and should a member of the team
come to a point where he needs to say "no" again, please: cut the crap!
[...]
To those who happen to be curious about what "the team" is not saying on
`ZMoDem' over ~IP~, go check this ~URL~ and you'll see that there's no
such thing as a 100 % black or a 100 % white world:
ftp://ftp.kellygroup.com/pub/glink/glinkdos/GLDOS.ZIP (about 525 Kb)
I couldn't find enough time to play extensively with `Glink for DOS',
demonstrator release 6.1.5 (of February 1), but it clearly demonstrates,
* ALREADY *, that `ZMoDem' in a ~TelNet~ session *IS* working and can be
offered with `Kermit', SIDE-BY-SIDE, in the same DOS ~TelNet~ client!...
Personnaly, i'm very confident that `MS-Kermit' would execute a `ZMoDem'
algorythm roughly as well as it does a `Kermit' one. The very fact that
`MS-Kermit' remains a SINGLE file transfer protocol terminal after about
TWO DECADES is not the result of a lack in hardware ressources, it's a
subjective choice and i'd say `GLink for DOS' tends to prove it WRONG.
Some 20 years later, `Kermit' is still sulked at by the BBS community
and now i think i can begin to see why! What's happening in reality is
just the opposite!!! %-o No wonder we had to wait until a paying `Win
9x Kermit' ver$ion before a select group of `Kermit' users could access
their prefered BBSes and have use of `ZMoDem' with it! At the moment,
the poor "sod" (DOS) users can't do that and it appears they never will
have the same chance (but who can possibly know?!?)... Go figure! :(
[...]
This salute goes to "The Team"/followers in a most appropriate language:
Mmmeuhhh!... >8'b,
Michel Samson
************************************************************************
* Peculiar bucolic scene: a cow comes to a stop, takes a break... *
* lets you see a little bit more of the whiteness around its immense *
* eyes and then... and then pinch your nose and run for your life! *
* *
* A thought inspired by Columbia's University `Kermit-95' task force. *
************************************************************************